Warning: This is an extremely
controversial interview. To be honest, we almost decided not to print
it; however, because IRONMAN has always been an open forum, going to
great lengths to tell the whole truth, we felt it was our
responsibility to the sport and to you, the reader, to allow this
athlete to speak his mind.
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It took a lot of courage for this man to stand up and tell it like it is, and we are keeping him anonymous to protect his status as a professional bodybuilder. We're inserting [blanks] in place of names to help protect his identity-no process of elimination to narrow down the field-and also in place of drug names, so drug-using bodybuilders don't get any inadvertent "help" with their drug programs.
Keep in mind that we paid this man
nothing because we feel money can only corrupt the information. When
people are paid a high sum, they feel as if they have to give the
interviewer his or her money's worth, and that can result in
exaggeration.
As you read this, remember that this
athlete came to us because, like us, he loves bodybuilding and wants
to see it prosper, not die a painful drug-induced death.
Fasten your seatbelts. This dose of
reality is going to open your eyes like nothing ever printed in this
or any other bodybuilding magazine.
IM: You want to get some things off
your chest. You have the bodybuilding world's ear. What is it you
want to talk about?
BB:Well, you know, most of the things nobody
wants to talk about. I want to let everybody know how it really is.
IM: How it is with the drugs?
BB: Damn right!
IM: You're having to take too many,
correct?
BB: Way too many, man.
IM: What kind of drug bill are we
talking about?
BB: Well, growth hormone alone costs you
$30,000 a year.
That is absolutely true, HGH costs a lot of
money.
IM: Good lord!
BB: And
steroids, that's not a really big problem. I use a lot, but you can
get it cheap. Mostly you gotta pay people to tell you how to use
them. The growth hormone, IGF-IЙ.
IM: And just the thought of putting
all that in your body all at one time-that's gotta take its toll on
you mentally too.
BB: Well, I don't mind a little bit,
because I do like big arms, big back, big chest and legs and
everything. But when it comes to the point where I'm as big as I want
to get-
IM: They tell you that you have to
get bigger, right?
BB: Yeah, I don't have a choice. I'm
gonna be bigger. Next year you're going to see me 24 pounds
heavier.You know it's the whole mind-set that you gotta get bigger
and sacrifice your shape. I may not like the way my back looks. I
mean, I've got improvements to make, obviously. But those things come
with time. Maturing into a physique is nice, but they want a monster.
IM: Do you think it can ever stop? I
mean, if people keep getting bigger, what's going to happen to the
sport?
BB: Well, the sport is already-
IM: Out of control?
BB: Yeah.
It's an underground sport. It's [a cult that] likes to see the freaky
mass monsters....They really don't care. They just say, Whatever it
takes to do that, that's what we want to see. But I think a lot of
people want to see something that's somewhat attainable.
IM: Do you think the size of the
competitors has caused the people to be a little blast about it all?
Like: Well, they're just going to have to do what it takes. We don't
care; if they die, they die. We want to see 'em bigger, and we want
to see 'em better.
BB: That's right. They want us to do
it, and the judges want to see something bigger. In order for us to
make a living and live our dreams, we gotta do whatever it takes, you
know? You got guys like [blank, a bodybuilding columnist for another
magazine] saying, "Well, nobody's making you." I guess
nobody is, but a lot of us [have] this dream of being the best of the
built.
Best of Roid built.
IM: Absolutely. And it's a
performance thing too. It's gratifying to be on stage. What do you
think is a solution here? Do you think there is one at this
point?
BB: Well, it's hard to say. Once you've seen
extreme physique development, how are you going to train the eye of
the audience to accept something less? You can practically see [some
of these guys'] lungs when they do rear lat spreads. You just gotta
accept something less. By the way, before I go on, let me tell you
right now, there's a lot of things in your hands.
IM: I understand. Your identity is
completely confidential, I promise you that. We'll just say you're a
top pro. That's all.
BB: Right. Okay. Ask anything.
IM: Do you think part of the
solution is for the judges to start rewarding a more aesthetic
physique?
BB: That would be the only way the sport
would go into a positive direction. Like Bob Paris.
IM: Right, if Bob Paris came back. I
think the problem is you have to have an eye for that type of
physique, and the general public and most bodybuilding fans don't
have it, so they look at size as the top criterion for victory.
BB:
I think there's a certain presence, an aura to a really complete
physique like Lee Labrada's, rather than someone who's just
grotesque.
IM: Getting back to the whole drug
thing, do you have to stay on the drugs year-round?
BB: Yes.
I haven't gone off at all for years.
IM: You have to inject, what, three
to four times a week?
BB: Every day.
IM: Every day you have to inject
something into your body?
BB: Yeah. Every day. Let me
go over my stack.[He rattles off a list of injectibles and orals
that's so long, my jaw hits the desk.]
IM: This is just
off-season?
BB: Yeah. And of course I like to use
[blank] that blocks estrogen and also increases testosterone levels.
Also [blank] four times a day in the off-season to allow me to eat
more calories. I also take half a tablet of [blank], which works
better synergistically with growth hormone. Six weeks or so out I
start taking some [blank] to stop some of the gyno. I did have to
have it removed a few years back, but it kind of flares up now and
then.And I use [blank] to take some of the water out. And [every so
often] I switch from the heavy androgens to the lighter anabolics,
like [blank and blank], 300 milligrams every other day. Let's see,
[blank], 200 milligrams a day. That helps you harden up your
physique, increase your vascularity. I take some [blank], which helps
me harden, and I keep my insulin the same and my growth hormone the
same.
IM: Whew! Quite a laundry
list!
BB: Well, you know there's also many other
things, like [blank], which keeps my gonadal system up and [blank] to
boost my testosterone to make sure I don't atrophy down there. Also,
anti-estrogens and other compound factors to combat the many side
effects that I get.
IM: Have you ever noticed any
serious health problems that you think are related to this?
BB: I
piss a lot of blood come contest time.
IM: But in the off-season you feel
pretty decent, even though you're taking all that stuff?
BB: Well,
recently I started getting blood tests every two months.
IM: How about cholesterol count,
blood pressure and so forth? All that's pretty normal?
BB: No,
everything is high. My blood pressure gets really high, and that must
be watched, especially when I take stimulants.
IM: It sounds as if you're on pins
and needles a lot of the time.
BB: If you gotta do it,
you got no choice. You want to make a living in this sport, that's
what you gotta do.
IM: Race cars keep going faster and
faster and there are more crashes, but the drivers keep doing it,
right? What do you think your total drug bill is for the
year?
BB: About $60,000, but it's going to be higher
next year. Just this last year I had to add [blank]. Right now it's
the number-one bodybuilding "supplement" in the competition
ring. All these guys you see getting bigger, it's that. No question.
Two years ago...I don't want to take nothing from [blank], really
nice guy, nice family man, but physiquewise he was flat as a pancake.
Now he's bigger, 20 to 30 pounds heavier. It's all [from this stuff].
[Blank] is heavy on it. Of course, we all are. I'm scared shitless.
IM: Are you guys pretty frank with
each other about what you're taking?
BB: Only with
friends. I mean, I get questions in the gym all the time, and I tell
them I take [a popular protein powder]! Yeah, we talk.
IM: You don't feel you need to keep
secrets and maintain an edge?
BB: There are no secrets.
There's one guy out there-I won't mention his name-he's a top pro who
helps out the other pros with their [blank] 'cause we don't know how
to do it, so we go to him. He helps us out.
IM: I know the old-timers say
there's no camaraderie in the sport anymore.
BB: Oh,
there's some. But the only thing we talk about is-
IM: Drugs and training.
BB: We
don't talk about training, because most of the guys-
IM: All train alike?
BB: Well,
yeah. We don't train that hard. [Most of the guys] are half asleep
when they [work out].
Real champions like Haney, Yates,
Swarzeneger, Oliva and all the others, trained brutally hard!
IM: So it's mostly just the drugs.
The top guys really don't have an inkling how to train without them.
Do you think most of the top 10 guys are taking pretty much the same
thing then?
BB: Yeah, they're all jabbing themselves
just as much, but I think [winning] has to do with your estrogen
levels and your normal testosterone levels, your receptor abilities
and things like that. You know, it's a genetic thing. Some people are
more susceptible to steroids. Five milligrams might hit me
differently than it might hit you.
IM: I asked you this earlier, and I
know you said you think that it's just all part of the game, but
aren't you afraid that this will catch up with you later in
life?
BB: I am. I don't think I'll be able to have
children. My doctor told me my sperm count is way too low. And my
thyroid [is blown out].
That is most unfortunate.
IM: Do you feel that the sport
indirectly promotes the whole drug thing?
BB: Yeah, but
then you have people saying that nobody makes us. But this is our
childhood dream. This is something we want to do, and for the most
part we don't have other jobs.
IM: Do you think this drug test they
had at the Olympia was a step in the right direction?
BB: It
was a step in the right direction for the sport and probably a step
in the wrong direction for people's careers because I know four
people who [should have] tested positive. But we can beat the drug
tests. Next year if they want to get diuretics, that's fine. We'll
use plasmics. It's fairly simple. There's always exotic
steroids."Let's change some molecule on the 17th position, and
it can't be detected." [Blank] still can't be detected.
I
Disagree, drug test is a must. When real drug testing is done ( not
the thing they do right now in the Olympia ), things will come upside
down. Remember Olympic weightlifting. After the new drug tests,
people literally lifted half the weight they used to.
IM: This is the most eye-opening
interview I've ever had. I appreciate your opening up to
me.
BB: You're welcome. It could be because I'm very
low on carbohydrates.
IM: And you're pissed
off.
BB: Yeah, you know the diuretic scene is very
difficult. I'm back there with my I.V. bag and heart monitor. It's
just the situation. You take a person and put him into a lab in a
freak science experiment. Then you throw him on stage, and you take
him off to pump blood back into him. Is that a sport?The training is
pretty much beaten to death. In fact, your magazine for the natural
athletes is what I recommend. Professional bodybuilding [is about]
drugs. Of course, there's abuse in every professional sport-boxing,
basketball, baseball, football.
I sincerely agree.
IM: How long do you think you can
keep at it? I mean at this pace?
BB: Well I've been on
forЙoh God. I'll tell you right now, if anybody's going to die next,
it's going to be [blank]. He's too old to be messing with [junk] like
that. His pancreas I don't think is too good.There's a look that you
get. I can see it. [Blank, a top pro] is very ill. I understand what
he wants to do for the sport, and he can do some great things, but
he's dying and every contest he loses is a blow to him. He's killing
himself literally because he wants to make this sport better.
Eventually he's either going to win the contest or he's going to die.
IM: He's really playing Russian
roulette?
BB: Yeah, he was using [blank] before any of
us. I prefer his look back [a few years]. He wasn't big but
aesthetic-a pleasing physique. Something a kid would look at and say,
Hey, I would like to look like that. Now he should be concentrating
more on certain bodyparts, but instead his body is getting bigger,
his stomach, his head, everything.
IM: It's a scary look. Yes, the
body's getting bigger, but all the internal organs are getting large,
bloated.
BB: They should have a contest for the biggest
growth-hormone gut.
IM: Got anything else you want to
get off your chest?
BB: Yeah, you know I have a hard
time thinking because of all the things I'm on now. But they don't
talk about how much drug [abuse] there is. And it's not just the
steroids. We've got to use speed and stuff like that. We have to use
a lot of diuretics, things that aren't too healthy, and they don't
feel good. Lots of guys are using cocaine-not just because they like
it, but it helps you get cut up, it helps you not eat.With drugs
there's use and abuse. But at our level I feel we're getting
exploited, you know? They pump us full of drugs...or we pump
ourselves full of drugs to make ourselves look like freaks, and we
get on stage and that's our job. But we don't get paid hardly
anything. The guy who uses our pictures, the supplement companies,
make all the money, and they don't give us nothing. If it wasn't for
our picture, they wouldn't have nothing to promote.
IM: Yeah, and you gotta keep risking
your life to try to make a few bucks winning a show.
BB: I'll
tell you what: [Some] of the guys, like [blank], are gay prostitutes.
IM: Think so?
BB: I
know so. That's how they can afford all those drugs. That's definite.
Of course [certain people in] the gay community are going to walk up
and say, Hey, we'll give you so much to have sex. That's just like a
straight guy walking up to Cindy Crawford and saying it. But for us
it's a way to make a good $10,000 a month. It helps with our drug
bill and sometimes they just give us drugs for the act.
IM: When you think about it, you
guys can't make much money.
BB: There's not much money
in the contracts. Especially with the drugs, the living, the food.
You have to sacrifice your-
IM: Integrity?
BB: Yeah,
your integrity, your pride. It's all a sacrifice. The drugs, the
prostitution. These guys don't want to do that. They have to look in
the mirror. They know they're sacrificing what makes them a man.And
all this crap you see about carb loading and sodium. Bunch of shit.
IM: So you don't think they actually
do sodium loading? It's all just drugs?
BB: Precontest
every once in a while you catch a guy in McDonald's or eating pizza.
You can do that kind of thing-of course, in moderation.
IM: But you're a pretty heavy
supplement user?
BB: I don't use supplements at all! No
vitamins, nothing.
IM: You don't think that vitamins
and minerals would help protect you somewhat from all the drugs?
BB:
Yeah, but-
IM: You've got put your money where
it's going to be the most effective, right? On drugs.
BB: Right.
I'd like to see a $1 million prize [for a bodybuilding contest].
That's something else that would help the sport. If there's a decent
amount of money in there, it would be something people would watch.
Unfortunately, I think people want to see the freaks at this point.
Really big mothers up there. It's like you said, you really can't go
backwards. I guess you have to let [it] self-destruct and see what
happens.
IM: I don't want to see any of you
guys die.
BB: We will. I guarantee you. You're going to
see lots of guys dying in the next few years.
IM: I hope the drug test is a step
in the right direction, and maybe they'll start judging for more
aesthetic physiques. If they did backtrack to more of the Bob Paris
look, I think it would help.
BB: Is that ever going to
happen?
IM: How much longer do you think
you're going to go on with it?
BB: Till I reach my goal. Or
it beats me.
The second will happen, most likely.
IM: Have you ever experienced any
kind of depression or rage?
BB: Oh, yeah. Beaten many
peopleЙgot out of hand. I feel bad about that
IM: Having all that coursing through
your system has to do something to you mentally.
BB: Well,
besides that, you feel a lump here, and you feel scared, and you
don't know what's going on.
IM: Do you get checked by a doctor
regularly?
BB: I get the blood tests, and he reads it. It's
foreign to me. I just ask how much longer do I have to live, what am
I doing wrong?
IM: But he doesn't do any MRIs on
you? It's just basically a blood test?
BB: No. He
checks my thyroid, sperm count. Of course, I'm never going to be able
to have children.
IM: Perhaps some of this will
reverse itself once you-
BB: No, I have irreversible
damage.
IM: That's really sad.
BB: I
think it happened last year. When I upped everything, I shut my
thyroid down. And if I go off the [blank], I'm going to get fat. I'm
going to stay on the stuff permanently. If I go off, I'm going to
rebound. None of these guys go off. It's just nonstop. These guys do
what it takes.Don't you see that they're exploiting us? They're
selling us. They're pumping us up, putting us on stage, throwing us
off, and they're collecting the money. And we're back there rolling
around in death.In the process they will make money. Sell ourselves.
Sell our souls, and we don't get much. And even if you take the
drugs, it's no guarantee you're going to win. You have to have
something going on there. But [the people who run this sport] say,
Keep it going, keep it going. And watch their wallets getting bigger.
They don't care.
It is a big business today.
IM: But you did say looking like
that helps you with women?
BB: That makes it a little
worthwhile, but I never had any problem with the bitches. I got
plenty before. Now I'm bigger, so I get a lot more. But you also get
the bad-that includes harassment from the homos.I want to say for the
guys who want to take their physiques to a [higher level], weight
training, eating right and exercising will help you achieve your
goals. What's big to you may be small compared to a pro, but like I
said, Lee Labrada will look huge to a lot of guys. So you can attain
your goals, get bigger, get better with the women, look good. You may
not win Mr. Olympia, but you can still have something to be proud of
[without the drugs].[Competitive bodybuilding, for the most part] is
all chemistry. It's chemical warfare. Andreas Munzer had something we
never had. All those striations and [blank] drugs, but look what it
did to him. He died by the sword. And [blank] pocketed everything
Andreas ever did.We have to deal with the rat race and the
counterfeit steroids. All these guys saying, Yeah, I fell down and
broke my arm. That's not true. That's the dealer breaking their arms
because they didn't pay for their shipment of growth hormone.
IM: You say you go to Mexico for a
lot of this stuff?
BB: Yeah, I go to Mexico. The
European tour is where most of us get our drugs.[Switches subjects
again] You don't need drug testing. Just a Lee Labrada. It didn't
take a ton [of drugs] to do that. Pick that, and there you go. All
the other guys will have to trim down to look like that.
IM: Go for the aesthetic physique.
That's one of the big steps they have to take. By the way, isn't
there a drug that you can inject directly into the muscle to blow it
up?
BB: Oh, yeah, [blank]. Use that for my peak on my
biceps. [Blank] uses it everywhere-80 to 100 shots. Tell you right
now it hurts like hell. But it's hard to predict. It may look good
five days before the show, then it lumps out and you'll get guys with
the real lumpy, weird-looking biceps.This whole sport is about being
a bitch. You gotta be a bitch to pay your bills. You gotta be a bitch
to win. That's what it's all about. Total exploitation. I'd like the
athletes to make a little more money. All these magazines talk about
how much Michael Jordan and Mike Tyson make. They don't talk about
how much we make, 'cause it's disgraceful. What am I going to do?
Sell pictures of myself?
IM: Do a lot of the guys sell drugs
on the side?
BB: Oh, yeah. I've done that myself. Now
it's a lot harder.
A drug dealer too.
IM: So what else? Is there's
anything you can think of that you're really pissed off
about.
BB: Well, I'm pissed off that we have to use
this amount of drugs. I was happier with my physique last year. [They
want us] in the 270-pound range.
IM: Don't you think the magazines
are a little at fault too?
BB: Yeah, they are. They
don't print nothing about the drug regimen. They're selling fake
dreams to kids: Take this protein powder, and you're going to look
like that. And it ain't true. Drugs play a predominant role, and most
of the [champions'] training articles lead to overtraining. You know
that. And unless you're on steroids, you're going to end up unhappy
and lose your dream.
Absolutely true.
IM: I guess it's a vicious
cycle.
BB: The insulin's very dangerous. I'm feeling it
right now. I'm getting real tired, headaches, weakness. I breathe
hard. Not a good drug to take.
IM: What's the danger with the
insulin? It's a hormone, so what's the big problem?
BB: You
can die right there. I mean, there isn't one of us who hasn't been in
shock. You really don't know.
IM: Have you ever had to go to the
hospital because of it?
BB: I've been in the hospital a
few times, yeah. They had to use half a bag of glucose intravenously
to keep me going. I didn't have any glucose in my liver, because I
did too much insulin. My brain was starved, and I was beginning to
fall asleep, go into a coma. It's the most painful feeling you'll
ever feel. During that time your mind's going nuts.What am I getting
out of all this? A cover picture? That won't pay the bills. Maybe
they should start giving back to the athletes instead of taking. If
they're gonna make it where we have to be bigger, we should get
something out of it. Golfers make more money than we do. I saw how
much they make at these rodeos too. They collect $50,000 for riding
some damn bull. They don't have to take drugs to do that.
IM: The danger's there for eight
seconds, then they're out of there. You guys have danger all year
long.
BB: Yeah it's dangerous.
IM: To say the least.
